NextGen Art: Cultivating talent and accessibility

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• TF: Tristanne Farrell, Investec Wealth and Investment International, Snr Investment manager
• BD: Boemo Diale, South African artist
• SO: Sean O'Toole, writer, editor and art curator 

• 00:00: Intro

  BD: Sometimes it's hard to get into a certain space. Things can be a bit gatekept. And I do think that's something we can all work on. I think there's still a lot of chances and opportunities. There are lots of ways you can get your foot in the door. It's just quite difficult sometimes. You'd have to do a lot of your own PR work in the beginning. But I think if you're going to openings and you're showing up, and you're just like making yourself known. It's doable.

  TF: Welcome to Art in Focus, an Investec Focus Radio series that explores the dynamic and growing African art market. I'm Tristan Farrell, your podcast host. I'm a senior wealth manager at Investec Wealth and Investment International and have a passion for art that's out of control. In this podcast series, I'll be chatting with art collectors, investors, renowned artists, and emerging talents about the current state of the African art scene.

  Whether you're an art novice or a seasoned investor, join me as we tour the landscape of  Africa's artistic expression together. In this episode, my guests and I will be discussing what is being done to develop young African artists, specifically how to turn raw talent into commercial success. We'll also be chatting about how accessible art is to the youth market and what up and coming African talent we should be looking for.

• 01:22: Introduction of guests

  TF: Let's meet our guest today. Boemo Diale and Sean O'Toole. Boemo is a multidisciplinary visual artist based in Johannesburg. Her work deals with themes of identity, self-discovery, spirituality, and the socio-political context of the country. Boemo was awarded the Investec Cape Town Art Fair's Tomorrow's Today prize, which was previously won by Bonolo Kuvula and Chris Soal. Boemo was born in Johannesburg and is now represented by Kalashnikovv Gallery.

  Sean O'Toole is a writer, editor and occasional curator based in Cape Town. His recent books include "Irma Stern: African in Europe, European in Africa" and "The Journey: New Positions of African Photography" and edited volumes of essays. He's published one book of fiction as the founder of Exemplary Press. And on a side note, he's in a two-man band called The Bad Reviews with Zander Blom, who we should all know. So thank you to both of you for joining me.

  TF: So  Boemo, how did you start your practice? And do you think art is a chosen career? Is it a calling? Is it something you have to have a given talent for? What's your views on this?

  BD:  I think it all happened really sporadically. I've been making and fiddling and creating when I was  quite young. And I guess the conversations of it becoming a career didn't start until much later, until I started going to fairs and seeing that there was potential to create a living from it. And yeah, I studied film and I just carried on making and fiddling. And I realized, I think that's, sort of more where I was leaning towards and really trying to develop a serious studio practice and show up for the work in that way.

  TF: And then just winning the Tomorrow Today prize at the Investec Cape Town Art Fair, has that changed your career at all?

  BD: Yeah, it's definitely made an impact. I guess being introduced to an audience and being introduced to a collector's base that I wasn't otherwise known to. And it's just been incredibly affirming. I think when you're like on a journey and like working and you just get a bit of a pat on the back or a bit of encouragement or a bit more help. It does feel like you're kind of on the right path and you're doing the right thing. Yeah.

  TF: A bit of recognition to say you're doing the right thing for yourself and for your collectors.

  BD:Exactly.

   

• 03:31: Why are art fairs better for emerging artists?

  TF: That's great. And Sean, I wanted to ask you about your Artthrob interview in 2021. You spoke about the art fair phenomenon, how the fair's allure is how well resourced they are. Can you expand on this, why the art fair popular for discovering, buying, emerging and underrepresented artists? Why is that?

  SO: I suppose the question is really one about the worlding, which is such a terrible word. Since 1994 and the lifting of the cultural boycott, there's been a lot of international interest in South African cultural production. And I think there were early attempts to seize that in the art world by introducing a biennale. in Johannesburg in '95. Grand two editions, the second, which was curated by a major international curator, Okwui Enwezor, closed a month early, and  that was that for the Biennale project. There were attempts to revive it in Cape Town in the early 2000s. So there was Cape and then the Spier Contemporary.

  And I think the problem was trying to stage very ambitious, large-scale exhibitions with sophisticated work, and who's your audience? The art fair one goes back into its history here. The first one starts in Joburg in 2008, and it's a very different proposition. It's small retail galleries presenting their work to a public for sale and somehow it proved more attractive. I don't know if it's necessarily the buying impulse, because I think a lot of people go to fairs just to window shop. So it's the same idea as a biennale, but for some reason, the art fair model as a business proposition seemed to work better. And it's snowballed. It created a fringe. So if you think of the Investec Cape Town Art Fair, there's so much momentum around it. You have the Sovereign Art Prize at Norval Foundation, Zeitz would inaugurate big projects, and then even little pop up shows all over town and you know  I think that's the momentum that the art fair has given.

  TF: It's also probably a convenience as well. All the galleries in one space that it makes it accessible for collectors.

  SO: But you could say that the Biennale would or could do the same thing. I don't know what it is about a fair that necessarily galvanizes, a scene and becomes a catalyst. But if you go to London, Frieze week is much the same. All the museums now coincide their big exhibition openings, galleries, events. It's certainly not a phenomena that's limited to Cape Town.

  TF: No, it becomes an art week basically. It's unstoppable. I just did Frieze this year, it's amazing. Can you share any success stories of young African artists that you know of that have broken into the international art market? Because that's quite a step forward for a lot of artists' careers.

  SO: I'm thinking. In the context of the fair, someone like Brett Seiler, a Zimbabwean-born artist who moved to Cape Town, studied here and got his hustle on and eventually became represented by Everard Read and had a great solo show at the Fair, or solo presentation at the Art Fair, and a German gallery who was exhibiting at the Fair for the first time saw the work, liked him invited him to show, now shares him with Everard Read. Eigen Art. And Brett just recently had a huge solo show at their HQ in Leipzig. If I just mention names, people like Bonolo Kavula when things a few years ago, she was showing with Verbier Gallery. I think it was this year had a wonderful solo at the art fair with SMAC.

  TF: Yeah.

  SO: Jeanne Gaigher would be another example was represented by Smith who closed, but I think last year had a wonderful solo presentation with an Italian gallery and a lot of momentum also around her. Very gorgeous colourist work.

  TF: She does some work with Reservoir, I think as well.

  SO: Correct. 

• 07:46: Boemo on what challenges she faced when starting out

  TF: So, Boemo, how accessible is the art market to young artists in Africa and what challenges do they face to gain recognition?

  BD: There is like an element of sometimes it's hard to get into and I do think that that's, something we can all work on, I think without realizing if things can be a bit gatekept. But I think there's still a lot of chances and opportunities. I think it happened on a whim of its own in my regard, where I was posting on social media and the gallery DM'd me, and that's how sort of my career started. And so there have... there are lots of ways you can get your foot in the door, but I think if you're going to openings and you're showing up and you're just like making yourself known, you'd have to do like a lot of your own sort of PR work in the sort of beginning. Yeah, but it's doable. It's just, it's admittedly quite difficult sometimes.

   

• 08:36: Thoughts on artists giving back

  TF: Going to recent news, Julie Mehretu donated over two million dollars to the Whitney Museum in New York as she serves on the board of trustees there. This was in, purpose around this was to basically give access to anyone to the museum under the age of 25. She's been quite vocal about inclusion and the need for institutions to prioritize young people to participate in the contemporary art culture. Sean, what do you think about this initiative and should other institutions be following this?

  SO: I think it's a good initiative in the context of Manhattan. Is it transportable? It's an interesting question. If you look at South Africa's, let's say, museum ecology, on the one hand you have Zeitz, Norval, you have the National Gallery, they all charge an entry fee. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the Jo'burg Contemporary Art Foundation, and you have A4. Free. It's a great initiative, but it's predicated on the idea that they will come as soon as you make it free.

  I don't think that is our fundamental challenge in South Africa. I think art is still seen as elitist. I think when one goes to the fair itself, it's a wonderful social occasion. But even myself as a sort of caustic observer is, "wow, how much do people spend on their outfits to come to the fair?" And maybe that's snarky and mean-spirited. But the point is, there is this problem of elitism attached to art. So there's a kind of persuasion and an activism around getting people interested in coming to a museum.

  TF: So going back to artists giving back, Ibrahim Mahama has this red clay studio in Ghana, which I'd actually really love to visit one day. He exhibits trains, planes on the studio grounds, basically old technology, basically for education to the locals, and then you've got Igshaan Adams in Cape Town that has the Breakroom, I think it's in Woodstock,  and so this is more directed to Boemo: what are your thoughts on established artists stepping up and creating community based institutions and projects - the giving back piece - and do you have any plans in the future should your career trajected that way to give back to you?

  BD: I think it's, I think it's incredible because artists have such a sense of what it takes to have a practice in a studio and how to show up. And so their mentoring can be really honest and authentic. I know Mary Sibande does Occupying the Gallery and she takes in mentees and I think it's important to have a bit of guidance, especially in the beginning of your career. I think if you're with a gallery too soon, it can be a bit detrimental. If you're not with a gallery, it can be detrimental. So it really depends on having sort of someone mentoring you that like really understands what you might need and can cater those sort of that kind of support.

  Ideally, yes, if I were able to make enough money to be able to have the resources to facilitate these kinds of spaces, because that is a consideration. But yeah, I think when I get to a point where I feel confident enough in the kind of artist that I've become, and there's still so much I plan on doing that I feel like I want to give back to my community. And I think my work speaks so much about my community and where I'm from and so it would only be right to give back in that way.

  TF: So would your passion lie in, what? Sort of project back to the community and education, mentoring?

  BD: I think like bits of everything. I think even just the conversation of like self-actualization of just understanding that you can become the thing you want to become. You don't have to be held back by any sort of particular circumstance, which these old sort of ideas and conversations that I have of how that would happen. But yeah, just like really the young black girl is like you can really become anything.

  TF: Okay.

  BD: Yeah.

  TF: And can you give us a little more context of how the work is inspired by the community for you?

  BD: I mean, my work is inspired by my mother and my grandmother, and I think I speak a lot about how my story is not unique in any way. It might be quite nuanced, but my experiences of moving between rural and urban is not a unique experience to me and so there are lots of people in my community and my family who experienced these. confusions of moving between spaces of who has access to what and who doesn't have access to what and these are like interesting things that I observed growing up and I was trying to make sense of it and that's where the work comes from, and just the ideas of beautifying pain and the sort of like utilitarian sort of vessel that you can use to create new realities is like essentially like maybe a mentoring program of you can, you know, have the devotion in your practice and the person you want to become and decide what you want to be.

   

• 13:20: What challenges do young artists commonly face?

   

  TF: Sean, you've been in the art world for many years. What sort of challenges do young artists commonly faced in your view, your personal view?

  SO: For those listening, I was given the questions in advance and this one did stump me a bit, but I did write down, I think, and Boemo more chime in! The first thing I wrote was money, which is, it's just money for production.

  TF: 100%. Yeah.

  SO: I remember years ago interviewing William Kentridge, and I read an Emily Dickinson poem to him. It's very short. It's about fame, and she says fame is like a bee. It has a sting, but it also has a wing, and over the years I've read that to many artists and but in William's case, he grabbed on the wing and it's this thing that success gives you. It gives you a production budget. If you think of the scale of, of William, let's say post-2000 and just these huge productions. So money I think is a crucial thing.

  I mentioned Brett Seiler earlier. If you looked, if you were a collector of his work, say, pre-COVID, one of the, the beauties of his work was these handmade frames, which were awful. They were literally screwed together, but it was a condition of having no money. I think another is connections. The art world, especially when you're starting out, is vertical. It's not horizontal. You're always looking up. There's always more successful artists, uh, than you. There's always somewhere that you want to get that is a step up.

  TF: Hmm.

  SO: And how do you make those connections, especially if you're not a hustler? I think you're an advantage if you went to art school, because you just have a cohort that you grow up with. This thing of connections is important because your peer group supports you and they speak about you to people, to dealers, to curators. I'll put critics at the bottom because they don't matter anymore and that's important.

  I think another word that I had is realism. I think ambition can get in the way of young artists and I've seen so many people come undone at a young age. They might have a solo show at 25 and by 30 they spent. The art market's a hungry monster and it cues another word which is sustainability. You have to have your eye on a career. Not, I think the pop phenomenon where from zero to hero within a week, which social media accelerates and it's not to say you can't do what you want, but it's also to have an awareness that the art market is, as it says, it's a market and if you don't sell, you get kicked out the door. If you come up with a formula, you're always going to be making works with toothpicks. How do you shift that when it's not what you want to do?

  I mean, I would add one thing, and maybe Boemo could challenge me, but I think I've seen it particularly in young artists, is envy. Because when you're starting out in your twenties, it's a bit like that claw in "Toy Story". It comes down and picks someone out and the rest, what about me? And it can create envy. I've seen it amongst when I have many artist friends, and when one artist's career seemingly accelerates, everyone else - it's a mixture between applause and the opposite. And envy can be a terrible, it can be a worm in the mind.

  BD: It can be quite stunting as well, for another artist, I think.

  TF: Have you experienced any of this?

  BD: A little bit, I think. Yeah, I mean, I've felt it sometimes with my connections and people I know that there is. People I used to be really close with, things start to drift after a show or whatever. And maybe vice versa. I think if a friend is like really produced something incredible, I'm like, it's just, it is a bit daunting. And it's also what seems in this industry at the moment in South Africa, it seems like there's not a lot of people to go around because it seems so small. And so I think people have a bit of a scarcity mindset in terms of trying to like really hold on to what they have or whatever position or reputation or space they're in.

  SO: Because it sharpens the competition in a sense.

  BD: Yeah, exactly.

• 13:38: Exploring art purchases through social media

  TF: In terms of other channels of buying, do you ever buy on online, Instagram, social media? What are your primary ways of locating works? Because I'm only hearing about auction houses, galleries, artist studios.

  IM: I have once or twice where I've reached out on Instagram, actually. So I met an artist called Cavella ended up meeting him in person, but he just kept posting quite a bit. And I just thought to myself, I actually quite like it.

  And I reached out. So I have done that. And then I've also. through, I have bought a piece once or twice where it's like a referral from an artist about another artist. And we've just chatted on WhatsApp and they've sent. And so I guess there is an element of word-of-mouth and community that happens and plays out.

  So, which is why I was saying, I think for me, the, what social media will do and what it creates such a great access and it gives artists an opportunity to put themselves out there a lot more. So, yeah, those are some of the other alternative ways I've done it.

  TF: Yeah, I'm definitely like you, I like to meet the artists, understand them and relate the work to the artists. So it's quite a nice personal connect.
  
  CM: It's a far more powerful connection if you've understood the thinking and the rationale.

  TF: The process.

  CM: The process and why they thought what they thought.

  TF: Yeah, definitely. So have you ever bought on Instagram?

  CM: Yes, actually through social media. And actually that really started during COVID when we couldn't get out.
  
  TF: That was probably me too.

  CM: And I remember looking at things because you needed some form of, kind of outlet to engage, but you knew you couldn't go to galleries. You couldn't go to exhibitions. And during COVID seeing artists online and reaching out to them, one was on Facebook, that was an Instagram and then starting just connecting. So I think COVID, certainly for me, COVID was the catalyst to looking at buying in that way. 

• 18:14: The digital age offers both opportunities and challenges for artists

  TF: What do you think of the digital age? More to Sean because I think we chatted a little bit about it and how it's impacted young artists in a positive or negative way.

  SO: If one reads the Art Basel Market Report, the 'Gram, for instance, they have this wonderful phrase: it's a "medium of discovery" amongst collectors. Collectors use it and they DM artists directly. They can see their practice. They can see their daily lives and become interested.

  The most spectacular example of this is Amoako Boafo, the Ghanaian, um, um, painter who in 2018 I think was selling works for about $50. Kehinde Wiley saw it and on Instagram and messaged for his galleries and said, you should look into them. One of the galleries followed up and within two years he was selling work at auction for $200,000. He had a record, I think, in 2020 of about $900,000. He's one of the most expensive African artists at market. The origin story is social media. I think the flipside is, in terms of using, and Boemo might either confirm or reject me, is social media is a hungry monster, and you have to feed it, and people, if you're not posting for a month, it's like, okay, they pass.

  BD: So everyone forgets about you. I also find it a bit frustrating where people will really engage with my social media, but won't necessarily come to the solo. Sometimes I think there's like a laziness. That people feel like if they're supporting and engaging you online, that they don't have to show up necessarily in person and the work is so different online versus in real life. Like you have to go to the show, like just liking and sharing the photos, great - but it's also important to show up in person. Yeah.

   

• 20:07: Galleries provide essential support and representation for artists

  TF: Sticking with you, Kalashnikovv is the first gallery, I think that's represented you. What role does the gallery play for you in your view?

  BD: I think it's definitely support and also like knowing how to speak with other collaborations. It's helpful having a working agent speaking on my behalf and negotiating prices, and I don't really have to think about that and it's also, the gallery is incredibly transparent with me, so I don't feel nervous of like that feeling taken advantage of in any regard and they do so much work that even when you look at the sort of percentage of what they take and what I keep, because they're doing a lot for me, I feel really comfortable with that. And yeah, I just, I don't have to worry about if I'm saying the right thing or if my email tone is correct in that way. And I'll figure that out later. But it's nice to not have to worry about it now and just make the work.

  TF: Safe pair of hands.
  BD: Yeah.

   

   

• 20:55: Advice for young collectors

  TF: Okay. And then, Sean, some advice from you, please, from years of knowledge, what advice would you give to young collectors that are just starting out and how can they build a collection and build their knowledge in art?

  SO: I think the first and most important is trust your own eye. But there's a qualifier to that. So I think look and look again. Travel. It's not about buying, it's you know, broaden your insights before you make that purchase, and if it means traveling between Jo'burg and Cape Town fair. If it means traveling to Venice, even better. The more you travel, I think, the more you realize the similarities and difference, and you also get context on South Africa in that certain national heroes maybe were sitting on the internet cribbing other people, or just that they represent a certain local zeitgeist that isn't necessarily, exportable and that's not to say that it's good or bad, but travel does broaden your insights.

  I remember going to India and to a contemporary art museum in New Delhi and being struck by how different but similar many of the artists were to South Africa and I think read. It does enrich your experience. And I say that not because I'm a writer. I look at Frank Kilbourn and how his collecting is deeply augmented by reading Jack Ginsberg. Obviously, he collects books, so he would read. But he has one of the most, and I don't say this subjectively, one of the most important artists book collections in the world. Piet Viljoen would be another example of a collector who reads very closely and makes decisions based on that.

   

   

   

• 22:59: Artists that Sean and Boemo are excited about

  TF: And then just some insight from both of you so our listeners can go away with some takeaway on artists that you currently are excited about and you would personally want to add to your collection. So, Boemo, you can go first.

  BD: There's actually, she's my friend, but Sichumile Adam. It's really, I think we spoke about it a bit earlier, this idea of the collective consciousness of people sort of unknowingly having similar conversations. And yeah, we've been discussing this subject of when depicting black bodies. Are you hypersexualizing something? And whether you are hypersexualizing a black body in an image? Yeah, I think she's someone who's incredibly thoughtful in how she does it and yeah, I think it's, that's something I would like to own.

  TF: Another name from you?

  BD: I was like, I'm really forgetful about names.

  TF: I'll give you a moment. I'll get Sean to throw in his two names.

  SO: I came up with three.

  TF: Three is good!

  SO: Photography has always been a first love. Okay. So, Lindokuhle Sobekwa from Goodman. With Goodman. Astonishing photographer, young. I had the privilege of doing very early interviews with him when he was just finished school, and just to watch this maturing talent. And such an emotional way of photographing very difficult subjects in South Africa. Remarkable. I think he's got a huge career ahead.

  Francis Offman, who's Rwandan, but lives in Italy, in Bologna. He's represented by P420, who do show at the Cape Town Art Fair. Has a, Interesting practice. I suppose it's abstract painting would be the closest approximation, but works with like coffee beans that he uses. So it's very much a kind of post painting practice. Very interesting. He was also on the shortlisted on the Sovereign Art Prize last year.

  And then this draws from going to Venice this year, Ethiopia for the first time had a national pavilion and  just these extraordinary paintings by, and I apologize if he's listening, Tesfaye Urgessa. And lives now in Germany, but similar to Michael Amitage, makes these paintings that are conversation with European painting, but they're so much rooted in the continent. Tesfaye's work, sort of cubist, figurative paintings, enormous, probably like five by three meter scale canvases and very gregarious, always multiple figures and a lot going on in a painting.

  TF: Okay. Did you think of another name?

  BD: Yeah. Xanthe Somers.

  TF: Yes.

  BD: Yeah. She's, I think she just won the Anna Award.

  TF: Yeah.

  BD: Yeah. And just the vibrancy and ceramics...

  TF: The scale of those vessels.

  BD: The scale, yeah. But I think I'm just drawn to anything extremely colourful. I just think I'm like, yeah.

  TF: That's great. And then just a final word from the two of you. The best galleries that you follow at the fairs and have seen really decent work from any fair.

  BD: Stevenson's presentations I always really enjoy. They've always have really great installation elements in the middle of the booths and, and that, Banele Khoza, they really dress up the booth and I find that really incredible.

  SO: I like your term dress up because I've known Banele for a while and that shift from being a painter or artist to opening the gallery and just the choreography of how he's done it. Very singular. He didn't try and mimic other galleries.

  TF: Yeah.

  SO: Beautiful.

  TF: Very individual. I've got his work at home. So what gallery would you purchase from or were you in?

  SO: Being a bit old and grey, I also thought about galleries that have shifted the scene. And Stevenson undoubtedly, you know, after they opened other galleries all started making these square little catalogues copying Stevenson. They just changed the tone and they've managed to sustain it. They've gone through some dips here and there. They have a rigorous solid program. I suppose internationally, I mentioned photography and photography is really fallen off the cliff.

  If you think a decade ago, photographs were commanding the prices of paintings. Now, if you go to an art fair, you hardly see photography at all. Which, if you're a canny or savvy or enterprising collector, now's the time to buy photography. And if you are ambitious, go to Fraenkel Gallery in San Francisco. They are astonishing photography, and just rooted in the history of photography, but show contemporary,

  TF: You're definitely encouraging our listeners to travel, that's the theme, hey?

  SO: Travel! And if you go to Mexico City, Kurimazutto. I think all countries look inward, but it's useful to travel and just, just see how the scenes elsewhere operate and how it dialogues with what's going on here.

• 28:00: Closing and where to subscribe to listen to the series

  TF: just want to thank you both for your time today and sharing all your views. We'll see you both at the Investec Cape Town Art Fair in February, the largest contemporary art fair on the continent that brings Africa to the world and the world to Africa.

  Thanks for listening to this episode of Art in Focus brought to you by Investec Focus Radio. You can find all the episodes of this series at investecom/artind focus wherever you get your podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate it, leave a comment and forward it to your friends and colleagues.

  Disclaimer: The views expressed are those of the contributors at the time of publication and do not necessarily represent the views of the firm and should not be taken as advice or recommendations. Investec Bank Limited an authorized financial services provider and registered credit provider.

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