Whose art is it anyway?

Podcast transcript: scroll to the areas that interest you

• TF: Tristanne Farrell - Investec Wealth and Investment International, Senior Investment manager
• AS: Antonia Strauss - Art Advisor & Researcher

• AP: Aaron Philander - Artist

• BB: Brett Bellairs - Director, 131A Gallery

00:00: Intro

TF: Welcome to series two of Art in Focus, an Investec Focus Radio vodcast launched to coincide with the Investec Cape Town Art Fair, the largest contemporary art fair on the African continent. I'm your host, Tristanne Farrell. I'm a senior investment manager at Investec Wealth and Investment International, and a passionate art collector.

Over the next few weeks, I'll be welcoming an extraordinary lineup of guests into my home: curators, collectors, and artists who are shaping the way we value and experience African art. In this episode, we'll be unpacking how technology is transforming not just into how art is made and sold, but how it's experienced and valued. From AI to VR, African artists are engaging with tech and repurposing in new ways, challenging traditional notions of originality and artistic value. It leads one to the ultimate question, So whose art is it anyway? 

00:52: Meet the guests: Antonia, Aaron and Brett

TF: Let's meet my guests today, Antonia Strauss, Aaron Philander and Brett Bellairs. Antonia is an art advisor and researcher who works with a large private client base out of London, advising them from the Warhols to the Basquiats. And Aaron is an artist exploring his own cultural heritage and identities. The materials he uses are repurposed from his family home and evoke themes of personal experiences. And Brett Bellairs is a curator, director of 131 A Gallery, an independent Cape Town based art gallery, showcasing contemporary artwork by some of South Africa's most renowned and emerging artists.

Welcome to my home. 

01:27 Personal journeys into the art world

TF: So let's start with you, Antonia. So how we met was initially actually a year ago today. And we did a hundred kilometre hike together and we connected on art. So can we talk about how you got into the art world on your personal journey?

AS: So in terms of my personal journey, it started probably quite young. I grew up in Hong Kong and was lucky, you know, very privileged to sort of be exposed to all incredible types of art, art exhibitions, art fairs, and amazing Asian arts. That really spurred me as a young kid, and I was always quite interested in the physical creation of art. I then was lucky enough to go to a brilliant school in the UK where I was able to exercise painting, drawing, sculpture. I learned all about the mediums –  although I wasn't particularly good at it – I still really enjoyed it and it spurred a real interest in me, and I was lucky enough to then go on to study art history. I then did a stint at Christie's in Hong Kong, so really understood how auction houses operate. Now obviously I've started my own business, my own art advisory, which has just been such fun. I mean, it's obviously been a little bit turbulent in recent times from a geopolitical perspective, but hopefully, you know, there is light at the end of the tunnel and we can sort of see that from the latest auction results and whatnot.

TF: Brett 131 A Gallery has been growing at a rapid pace. I've been to a few of your shows personally, how did you get into the art world?

BB: So for me, I actually studied graphic design post school and then kind of worked in commercial property for about, geez, 15 years or so. And then a friend of mine was starting an arts and youth culture magazine called The Lake, and they were looking for kind of like outside investment and so forth. So ja, I basically became owner of The Lake magazine, ja, which is quite a difficult industry to get into, but one of the publications focused quite heavily on up-and-coming South African artists. So I basically got to meet a lot of artists, up-and-coming as well as established. And then I basically thought of doing a gallery within that business and the other partners weren't that keen. So I did a popup show in my lounge. So, basically I hired an events company to put up drywalled screens. I had like the likes of Lyndi Sales there, Mia Chaplin, BLACK KOKI, Dan Levi, and it was a huge success.

I met at that, a dad from my daughter's school, she was at St Cyprian’s at the time, and he's a very well-known architect in South Africa. And he was building a building in Woodstock, well actually renovating an old building. And he's a very, very avid art collector. And basically what happened is he had two retail spaces downstairs that he was struggling to let. So we chatted and he sort of had the idea before me to do a popup gallery, as he also knew quite a lot of artists like Anton Karstell, MJ Lourens, and so forth. So basically we tried the popup gallery. I took over the whole project, did the first show, it was quite successful and we kind of gave it like a deadline of three months to do well or just, you know, abandon the project. So ja, on the third show we actually almost sold out the whole show. And it kind of snowballed from there. So we decided to carry on with the project and it became a fully-fledged gallery.

TF: I remember going to those early shows. They were excellent. So Aaron, you are the youngest of all of us. You and I connected over your first show at  AVA, I think your work is incredible and I think you've still got a lot to offer. What drew you to the art world and your practice?

AP: From a young age, I've always been quite creative, quite making things, and I've always been quite passionate about art. And then I went to Michaelis School of Fine Art and I sort of just learned the conceptual basis of art and, you know, really deeply thinking about art and, you know, things happening in the world and just making… materiality. But in like third year I decided, okay, I want to be an artist. You know, I want to work with galleries, I want to be making work, I want to be selling work, I want to be exhibiting. But didn't really have much connection or networks with really anyone. Then in fourth year I started, or with my mates, we started a project space called Demo Projects which sort of helped us get into the scene as we like bridged the gap in the market where we were sort of the younglings in the art world, and we just sort of put on shows that were unconventional. It challenged the traditional notions of a gallery. And it was just quite fun. You know, there's a lot of work we learned how to curate, learnt the behind the scenes, behind galleries. And ja, we've gained a lot of important opportunities from that, which has helped us get into the art world.

TF: We were talking about this earlier, saying, you don't get this internationally, it's a real South African thing where you get pop up shows and young artists. It's incredible and I love it. Authentically South African. 

06:37 Artistic voice, collectors and emerging practice

TF: So Brett, with 131 A, how do you select the artists you work with? Because you must get a number of CVs every week.

BB: The main thing I look for is a distinct artistic voice. So that could be within their technique, subject matter, colour palette, but like a good example is our Conrad Botes. You can see… he works over a variety or mediums, sculpture, drawing, print-making, painting, but you can see his work anywhere in the world and instantly recognize that it's Conrad Botes. So that for me is very, very important. As a collector, you want to kind of, you know, have when you look at that artist's signature, you want to have that work that's a distinct piece by that artist, and I think that's very important. Ja, that's the main thing I look at.

TF: Okay, and then Antonia onto you, obviously, without saying names, what type of collectors do you represent and how do their tastes, risk appetites and buying behaviour differ?

AS: Okay, so we are super lucky to work, you know, across the board. So I have worked previously with private family offices in Asia, who have very pucker taste and are very astute within the field and have pretty impressive, you know, very blue chip collections. And I have also been very fortunate to work with people who are literally just starting to build their art collection.

In terms of risk appetite. I mean, I feel like in recent times it's been slightly, you know, people have been slightly more risk averse. You know, they've really had to consider the markets, you know, from a geopolitical perspective, the Asian market that we deal a lot in is incredibly resilient and that, you know, although it's sort of diminished slightly, generally, it's kept afloat, I would say, a lot better than the UK and Europe and whatnot. America, obviously, is always, you know, guaranteed to be generally very good. So we are very lucky to work across, you know, all of those different sort of categories, which is wonderful.

TF: Aaron, you’re coming from Michaelis now, we were speaking about Michaelis earlier, some of your classmates and people you're seeing within the arts world, generally… emerging talents, what tech influences are they using these days that you're seeing?

AP: In my year, I think there were two performance artists, Leah Mascher and Sara Matthews. And I think with the tech influence, they specifically use it for documenting, you know, videoing their performance, which is quite interesting. But they've also, for the one they live streamed, the performance, which was her funeral, so for the whole show, she was in this coffin for about two hours. And there was… everyone was dressed in black. They sat in our project space, just at a funeral and the whole thing was live streamed from a phone, so people can log on, look at the funeral… So I think in that sense, the way tech was used in documenting is quite interesting. And Leah Mascher also documenting, in our in our space her… she would sit in the middle of the space and people would give her hickeys… a necklace of hickeys. So they would clean the space, clean the neck, give her a hickey. And this whole thing was filmed, you know, just people documenting it, the camera, their phones.

TF: Marina Abramović’s…

AP: No, definitely and that's a big influence for her as well. 

09:58 Challenges and opportunities for young artists

TF: So what other hurdles are young artists facing, like yourself, to establish a strong career in the art world?

AP: I think specifically, or at art school, you aren't… we weren't necessarily taught the basis of networking or how to make yourself known in the art world, how to package your work, how to work on your prices. We were… we specifically learned, you know, the theoretical frameworks and materiality, the practical side of your work, which was awesome. But I think the struggles, the issues that they face is, you know, making… getting yourself out there… how to be seen, how to be known, and at a young age where the art world doesn't necessarily take the young voices as seriously, you know, it's quite a… the certain age where, you know, everyone knows what they do, the directors, the gallerists, it's quite professional. At a young age, I don't think we necessarily take it as seriously. It's definitely challenging to…

TF: It's a tough environment. I think your gallery supports a lot of the young artists.

BB: Yes. So when they approach the gallery or we approach them, some hadn't really done a show before, so ja, they kind of got a bit of a head start into the art world. But, it's very difficult. I mean, geez, ja, we like reject a lot of proposals, ja, we are super fussy. We kind of have to be to keep our galleries sort of like, identity.

TF: And you can't spread yourself thin as well.

BB: I mean, you have to have a decent stable of artists.

11:40 The Role of AI and technology in contemporary art

TF: Just sticking with you Brett, so how are your artists using AI tools and tech to create new works and how is it impacting the art world in the greatest sense?

BB: Yeah, so I don't really see AI that much with our current stable of artists. I mean, one or two might use it to brainstorm ideas for, you know, conceptualising paintings or, but ja, no one really using the, the AI, you know, producing work that's like AI generated, ja, not yet. But I do see it around Cape Town. There are quite a few galleries that actually have like a whole digital art section.

TF: And that Michael Amery we spoke about?

BB: So, ja, in terms of tech, like, a few of our artists have used not really to like add value to the artwork or be like a big part of the artwork that they produce, but sort of more to enhance the viewing experience. So, one of our artists, Michael Amery, did a solo show, this was about three years ago, and he actually developed an app for a mobile device. It was for his charcoal drawings, which was pretty impressive. So basically he produced a whole animation of the process of creating the charcoal drawing, because his work is super technical and time consuming. So, it was a bit of a time lapse. And then when you pointed the mobile device camera at the artwork, it looked exactly the same as if you were looking at the drawing, you know, hanging on the wall, but the whole drawing basically came alive. 

13:11 What makes an artwork an original?

TF: That's quite amazing. I don't know Aaron, do you know an artist called Nathan Gates? So I came across him at Art Under the Bed. You would know him I think? But he studied engineering and he built machines that actually draw the artwork. So I've bought some of his work before because I'm intrigued by the whole principle of it. I think it's really creative. But it kind of leads me onto my next question now to all of you: What makes an artwork an original?

Let's take an example, Antonia, of Jeff Koons and Andy Warhol, who had factories of people producing these works and at the end result the artist would sign it off. Do you see these as originals? Does the art world see these as originals?

AS: Personally, I do because I think, you know, the… from a conceptual aspect, they came up with the idea of it. I don't think, you know, the fact that they collaborated with a team to create it necessarily detracts from its originality. There are a lot of sort of traditional art historians and people in the field who would suggest that because they didn't sort of do it all themselves, actually, it's not original. I mean, I guess it's obviously sort of a personal, you know, it is a completely personal opinion, but I think, you know, the fact that Jeff Koons didn't personally weld the steel to create his balloon animals would sort of detract from the fact that, you know, he still came up with the idea, the concept. You know, he obviously, without him, there wouldn't have been this product. I'm not sure how you feel, obviously as an artist, you know, it'd be interesting to sort of see what you think.

AP: So I was also an art assistant. I still assist for Brett Seiler, like I help with the framing or ja, making those bottles, the wooden bottles or the wooden cigarettes. So a lot of… it's sort of just production and woodwork and helping him. But I still wouldn't say it's not his work, you know? It's definitely… his idea is he sort of tells us, okay, this is what I want, this is how I want to picture it, I just need help making it.

TF: Do you get accredited for the work at all? For like being hands on on that work?

AS: We were discussing that, weren't we? It’s quite interesting.

AP: I'm not sure, like I haven't read anything, but like, no, I mean…Brett's like he definitely like credits us and he tells everyone like we, we’re his assistants. And he's also been a big, a pinnacle part in helping me network and just putting me in spaces where, you know… giving me opportunities and meeting people.

So, I mean, he definitely values us as assistants and also knows, like we put in a lot of work. But ja, I wouldn't take anything away from its being his idea because it's all his vision, you know? And he's been doing it for years.

TF: 100 percent. Brett, what's your view there?

BB: I mean, I tend to agree with Aaron and Antonia, so I mean the original conceptualisation of the artwork is, I think, the most important thing. Pretty much every sculptor that works in bronze sends his idea off to a foundry and that gets cast in bronze and has his signature on and sells for a lot of money. A lot of top artists have assistants in their studios, some doing very detailed work. Some doing the entire painting, but that original thought comes from the artist and it's usually under their directorship.

TF: Is there anyone in South Africa that triggers a bell for you of them doing that.

BB: Can't say names but there are a few, ja. Actually, quite a few.

TF: We’ll talk after this…

16:25 The Ship of Theseus and art restoration

TF: So, Damien Hirst was famously known for the work, The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living, where, for our listeners, he took a real tiger shark, preserved it in formaldehyde and tank, it was huge. And in the first version of this work, the shark rotted, right? So someone's bought this work, it's rotted, and now he replaces the shark. So is it still original, if you replace the entire work?

AS: I mean, we touched base on this, didn’t we, and at university when we sort of studied this, you know, it's that concept of like, you know, the Ship of Theseus, is if every part of the ship has been replaced, is it still the same ship? It's obviously, in this circumstance, it's a completely different shark. He's obviously slightly had to amend, you know, the composition and whatnot. Is it the same? I mean, yes, because conceptually it is. But obviously it isn't, physically, you know.

BB: It's quite an interesting one, that artwork. So when that first shark basically decomposed and the formaldehyde got all murky and they had to replace it, initially the gallery replaced it with a fiberglass mould of the original shark that had the shark's skin stretched over the mould. And Damien Hirst actually intervened and he said, no, this is, it doesn't look right. It doesn't look menacing enough. It's totally wrong. So he sourced another tiger shark, and then it was subsequently sold for, I think it was like $8 million or something to the new collector. But he was like adamant that it had to be perfect.

TF: It had to be a real shark. I mean, that was the pioneering thing about it.

AS: Well, exactly. 

18:05 Conceptual art and temporal nature

TF: So the other question then is, and think about your work now, if your work had neon lights on it, like a Tracey Emin work, and I had a Tracey Emin hanging here and the light bulbs not working and I decide to take it down the road to the local electrician, is it still an original work or have I damaged the work? Or how is it perceived by the art world?

AP: Ah, I don't… that's such a tough question, but I think, specifically with my practice, I'm quite rough and ragged when I do make the work. And I think there is something in that, of having to replace it, you know? There's something conceptual about that, that the artwork is sort of temporal in a way…

TF: It’s alive.

AP: Yeah. It's never still, it's never one thing. It can change, you know? I think specifically with my work where things are rusted, things are weathered. It doesn't have a set sort of stillness or… so I think it's quite interesting and I think there isn't necessarily something wrong with that, where that intervention of just changing the light bulb or it's like walking into your house and switching on the light, you know, it just becomes part of your day with the painting or the artwork… becomes part of your life. So I think there is something conceptual.

TF: Do you both agree with that?

AS: Yeah, I would agree with that.

BB: Yeah, definitely. 

19:24 The Lost Leonardo and authorship

TF: So one work we spoke about as well was this lost Leonardo. I mean, there's so many documentaries going around. Everyone's seen it and, you know, knows about the work. It's supposed to be the last work that Da Vinci's Hand touched and it sold on auction for $450 million. But when you look at this documentary, you see how the restorer of the work literally, I think, painted the work five times over more than Da Vinci did.

TF: So what does this tell us about authorship, restoration and perception and value?

BB: There's a lot of sort of, geez, a lot of debate over that particular work. Whether, I mean, they did find glimpses of his hand, like underneath that painting. But they, a lot of people said he looked at that work and through using all modern day tech and stuff, that parts of it looked like it hadn't been painted by him as such. So could have been students of his, so it's kind of like rated as like a workshop studio work. And it’s $450 million, so…

TF: What's your view?

AS: From an academics perspective or a, you know, someone who's obviously a sort of an, an aficionado for Leonardo, you know, they looked at this and they were like, this is not right, you know, we can't sort of validate this or verify this. But obviously, you know, you obviously mentioned in your question about authorship, you know, ultimately it did sell for $450 million to, you know, to obviously MBS in the Middle East. But, so, does that mean that, because obviously it's had all of this, you know, restoration, does it matter, really? Like, I mean, from an academic perspective, it does.

TF: The art world has christened it an original work.

AS: Exactly, but the fact is, it’s a Leonardo and obviously everybody wants a piece of it – who can afford it. So yeah, I mean, it's an interesting debate, isn't it? Like does that sort of… people obviously forego that information and they're like, no, we'll have it anyway. But it's bonkers, I mean, they bought that originally for a $1000 from an auction house in New Orleans or something.

TF: It's a beautiful art story that. That's the collection you want.

AS: But it is slightly cursed, that painting, I believe. 

21:30 Found objects and personal narratives

TF: So Aaron, moving onto your work, your work often incorporates found or personal objects, like items from the last show titled Nanna’s Kitchen. How do you feel about the originality of the work when the objects used had an original function and purpose?

So I always think of your work like Marcel Duchamp, Man Ray, like taking a knife and a spoon and putting it on a plate and going, this is now an artwork.

AP: I think specifically with, like taking a spoon or taking a hammer and giving it a new meaning or giving it a new purpose, specifically with my work, I love finding scavenged materials, you know, scavenging for rusted, weathered wood, things that I can just get my hands on, and I find them quite beautiful. And I find it quite beautiful to give it a space, whether it's a gallery or exhibition space, wherever, where people can admire that beauty that I see in these objects. And with, I mean, the last show, these objects were taken from my grandpa’s shed or my nanna's kitchen… just like scavenging through this old archival stuff.

And I think within these objects and within the materials that I use, finding them, the reason or the purpose… I want to give them a new purpose or new space to be viewed is because they have their own narrative. You know? I'm almost just giving them a space to speak that narrative, but also open for interpretation for others to view and have certain opinions with it, and I also just find it quite funny or just quite fun, you know, taking a hammer and maybe just changing it in some way, or just taking a nail or a spoon or just sort of curating these objects in a way that can speak to what I'm speaking about.

TF: It tells a bigger story, your work though, when I look at it, I mean, you take like a few objects and you can just literally see the depth and the history of the work. It's incredible.

AP: …and it's almost childlike, it's almost like playing with Legos as a child, but just with really dangerous, rusted, weathered things. You know, I've stepped on so many rusted nails or my studio is just like that, but…

TF: …and you broke your finger the other day?

AP: …but it's literally just childlike. It just makes me feel like a child when I make, and it's quite exciting.

TF: It's like Bella Knemeyer. So she mulches work, but she believes one item in its lifetime can be one thing and end as something else. And she mulches chequebooks or anything and she turns them into artworks. So a similar kind of process, which I love.

AP: And it's a beautiful thing as well, I think. 

25:20 Protecting artists' intellectual property

TF: So the NFT market that collapsed by 92% – I was never a big fan of NFTs, just for the record – with most NFTs now effectively worthless, do you see any pathway for digital markets to rebuild credibility? Or could something similar happen to the AI assisted art market?

We were talking this morning about the headline artwork at Art Basel that opened, and that Beeple, the NFT artist, Winkleman, he made these little robots that take photos of things and they've got heads of Elon Musk, but it's made headline news, world-wide…

BB: I think it's just, you know, the shock factor more that people buy into. But like a lot of people, I'm not really into tech or AI, I'm a very old school, traditional person. I collect vintage watches, art, you know, vintage guitars, so forth. So for me, ja, nothing can kind of top, you know, traditional mediums with art.

TF: You also deal with a lot of young collectors in your base. I mean, are they not looking for more AI assisted, more tech approach, or are they comfortable with traditional norms?

BB: Not really. Ja, even… I mean, we deal with a lot of, you know, like under 30-year-old buyers and they, ja, just looking for paintings and sculpture and drawing. God, we haven't… we've pretty much never had a request for anything digitally created. I don't think the demand's there.

TF: Not yet.

BB: No. Ja, it might come, but I think it'll be brief, like in my personal opinion.

TF: We’ll keep an eye on Aaron's work. He might start using AI after this.

AS: I know. Who inspired you? 

26:08 Trends and movements in the art market

TF: So from all of you just… markets are shifting globally. Where do you feel the art markets are headed? Where are you all seeing buying opportunities and how do you stay on top of all of these trends and movements in the market? Maybe Antonia?

AS: For me, in terms of the sort of keeping up with trends element to that question, because I feel like it sort of ties in quite nicely with the initial part, but you know, I love being on the ground at art fairs. I know a lot of people don't necessarily love that aspect of the art world and think it's a little bit pretentious and superficial. But I do think, you know, if you are out there and you are sort of talking to people, talking to gallerists, curators, artists, it's… there is no better way to sort of, you know, gain the intel – and the gossip. But I always think, you know, being on the ground is a great thing, obviously, you know, being proactive and using sort of market research tools.

I mean, we depend on that, you know, obviously obsessing over auction results. You know, I think social media plays an integral part in obtaining information. You know, I follow some great accounts like Izzy Lauder-Frost and Wendy Goldsmith who were, you know, pioneering art advisors and they share a lot and they're at every exhibition and it's incredible. So I personally think we are in good stead at the moment. You know, obviously, as I said, we deal a lot with, you know, our Asian clients and we have to sort of monitor that, America and also Europe, and I think, it is looking up and I think, you know, there is huge emphasis on sort of the diversity of artists at the moment, which is phenomenal.

So women, obviously, people of colour, et cetera, you know, different mediums that we've kind of been talking about, different subject matters. People are a lot more receptive in this day and age, which I think is brilliant, you know, because there have obviously been periods where people, you know, were very generic…

BB: It used to be very conservative, the art market.

AS: Absolutely. And giving sort of budding artists, budding galleries, the opportunity. You know, art fairs are really, as we, you know, obviously we're touching base on this. Art fairs are really promoting, you know, those kind of non-big, you know, big dog galleries, which I think is brilliant and there's so much more to see.

28:15 Encouraging young collectors

TF: So, Brett, how do we encourage the next generation to collect and appreciate art? I'm going to ask all of you this question, but I'll start with Brett.

BB: Ja, I think, I mean obviously price point's going to be a factor. Probably the main factor for a young collector, ja, budget. I'd say also fresh art, you know, work that you can have in your house that if you're in a modern flat or something like that, it'll suit your decor. Or also, I mean, even the young collectors look at art as an investment. You know, their outlays obviously perceived by them as a lot more than maybe someone in their mid-fifties who's, you know, ready to retire because they’ve got so much wealth.

AS: You know, I think, traditionally, you know, the art world has always been sort of deemed to be quite snobby. You know? It only attracts wealthy people and educated, you know, very educated people who can appreciate wonderful pieces of art. So I think the more that obviously artwork is showcased and you know, wonderful pieces are lent to institutions or you know, people can see it and physically be inspired by, is really important. I also think, you know, as I said previously, social media does play an integral role with this because I think the more it's… as I said, the more it becomes accessible, you know, people become more interested in it.

AP: Yeah. I would also agree, like the accessibility, yeah, it's quite hard. But I think just supporting young artists, but also young artists supporting fellow young artists, you know, and buying their work. But what I've noticed, which is possible to trade works with other artists, you know, and then you can start a collection from a young age and that felt so abnormal.

Like, can I have these expensive artworks in my house, because I'm just an artist. But that fact of, okay, I can trade because this person or this artist, whether it's an older artist, wants to invest in me and I would also love to have one of their works in my house. So that sort of thing was very interesting to me. And it's sort of ignited a sort of passion of collecting where, you know, in my house I want art, I want to collect art, which is quite fun. And I think for young artists or young collectors, that's what it is to be passionate.

TF: So you have a Brett Sieler in your house?

AP: I don't, I really want one…

TF: Art Swap again. 

30:28 Dream art collections

TF: So this question actually stemmed from Antonia and I when we did this charity hike and we met each other and the first question she asked me is, if you had an unlimited budget, which artist would you buy? Anywhere in the world…

AP: Oh, that is a tough, I like, I can't even put my finger on it, but like local artist,

I would obviously want a Brett Sieler in my house, or a Warren Maroon. I've always wanted one of his works. But for some reason I would also want like a crazy, crazy installation like Anish Kapoor. I don’t know how… That would be so cool just to have one of these massive installations. So yeah, that would be my choices.

TF: Good choices.

AS: I mean, that's like asking me who, what's, who's your favourite child? I mean, I would always sort of… I love Basquiat. He is my absolute hero. I think he's such a romantic figure and incredible. But then I would choose two more, darling. My favourite, I love Eva Pade, who's now represented by Thaddeus Ropac, who I think is iconic. She's sort of quite Emin like somewhat in her style. She does enormous paintings, which I love, like completely, you know, if you walked into a space and saw her paintings, you know, you stop in your tracks and you are like, wow, just need to look at that for 15 minutes, you know? And George Condo. I love him. I think he's wonderful. And I mean, you know, such a sort of plethora of different works. Like he's so multi-talented across sculpture, drawing, painting, but it's unconventional, it's thought provoking. And I think, you know, I love that. It's something different. You know, it's not traditional in that sense. And I, yeah, I love his work.

TF: And you, Brett?

BB: Geez, I'd have to go with Monet. I just love the way he captures light and atmosphere, there’s no one else who can do that…

TF: I was waiting for one person to choose one of the… So your next private art exhibition in the house, we can come see your Monet in the lounge.

AS: Exactly. 

32:30 Conclusion

TF: So thank you all to our listeners for tuning into the special edition of Investec Focus Radio vodcast series, Art in Focus. I look forward to seeing you at the Investec Cape Town Art Fair, from Friday the 20th to Sunday the 22nd of February.

You can also find all the episodes of this series at investec.com/artinfocus, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you've enjoyed this episode, please rate it, leave a comment, and forward it to your friends and colleagues.

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