Staying onside: what rugby can teach us about LGBTQ+ allyship

As the title sponsor of the Champions Cup, Investec is serious about rugby. We’re just as passionate about supporting belonging, inclusion and diversity in our communities.

Investec’s Darian Govender, Co-Chair of our PRIDE network, recently interviewed two rugby legends about their experiences as LGBTQ+ advocates: Jade Konkel, the current captain of Harlequins Women and a member of the Scottish national team; and Ben Cohen MBE, a key member of England’s World Cup-winning squad in 2003 and the founder of the anti-bullying charity StandUp Foundation.

In this Q&A they explain what they have learned about LGBTQ+ acceptance and allyship and how we can all help others feel that they belong.

1. Good afternoon, Jade. Here’s a starter for you – what is more stressful: firefighting, or playing professional rugby?

It's a good question. I think they are both very stressful in their own right. With rugby, you do so much preparation; you analyse matches, you study your opposition, you put in all the hours training so that when you get to the game, you're as fully prepared as you can be. In the fire brigade, you've done all the training, but you don't know what you're going to turn up to each day. So, I think they balance each other out nicely.

I'd say the life and death scenarios make firefighting a lot more stressful. But then in rugby, there’s a lot of decision-making involved as a leader, and there are definitely stressful situations with a large team to manage on the pitch.

2. What sort of support did female players receive when you were growing up?

I'm from quite small place in the Black Isle, which is the north of Scotland. For anyone who's heard of the Loch Ness Monster or the Highland cow, that's where I'm from.

For me, rugby was non-existent for girls growing up unless you were in a mixed team. I played for one year when I was nine, in an all-boys team. And I held my own quite well. But then the older you get the less you get passed to, and there’s no other teams for you to join. So unfortunately, I didn't get to continue with that, and I’ll be as blunt to say there weren’t really any opportunities from a rugby perspective.

But you'd be getting chucked into hockey, gymnastics, basketball, all those other sports that were deemed appropriate for girls. I tried to have a rugby team in school, but there was a bit of backlash on that. So, it was very much that you had to try and create it from nothing; join an all-boys team, and then travel if you wanted any kind of rugby exposure.

It’s safe to say that it’s drastically improving now, but it’s still got a long way to go, especially in those smaller communities.

3. How important is the visibility and representation of LGBTQ+ individuals in sports?

I think it's really important to continue to normalise being gay. And I think a lot of that can be done by seeing athletes in sport continue to push that message – that it is part of normal, everyday life.

Athletes are often role models to those watching the sports, so seeing more LGBTQ+ athletes living their best life and doing it at the top of the game helps. When barriers are removed, you can focus on the important factors such as hard work, resilience, perseverance, and being a good person. Doing all that whilst being gay – I think that's what's important to see, and it’s important to understand that being in the LGBTQ+ community shouldn't be a barrier.

Representation is significantly improving in female sport, but there is still a long way to go in male sport. And I think a lot of that stems from it not being the norm as such, and there are stereotypes about what a person should be like if they are LGBTQ+.
 

4. Harlequins organises an annual Pride-themed match to celebrate the community. How does it feel to be playing for Harlequins? And how inclusive do you think the female sporting world is now?

I love playing for Harlequins. I've been at the club since 2018, and it's the only Premiership rugby club in England that I've ever played for. With regard to how inclusive the female sporting world is now, my knowledge of this sits primarily in rugby and my experience is that it has been incredibly inclusive. You've got a leading club like Harlequins where the Pride event is now just part of the calendar, and it's got a fan base that is totally supportive of that. The club has even gone as far as creating a Pride shirt to coincide with the event. Which is absolutely lush, by the way,  the colours are unreal. You’ve also got the culture on the pitch, in training and in the changing room of true acceptance no matter who you are.

On the other side of that, I would say rugby carries a stereotype from a female perspective. There's a narrative around, ‘Well, she plays rugby, so she must be gay.’ Alongside some other words that aren't as pleasant to repeat. A lot of the teams I've played in have had more straight players than gay players, but you see a lot of comments online that are derogatory regardless – just because it's women playing rugby. Being a female rugby player doesn't determine your sexuality. And you can be whoever you want to be and play rugby.

For the most part, of the online rugby fan community is a safe environment. For me, being involved in the female sporting world was a huge factor in why I'm completely comfortable with who I am these days. And it’s why I want to push these messages about normalisation, so other people can see that you can live the kind of the life you want to live while being totally okay with it. And that other people are okay with it, too.

5. Do you think there’s a link between being able to be your authentic self and high performance in your field?

Yeah, definitely. When you walk out onto the pitch, or when you’re at work, you need to be 100% confident in yourself and the team that you work with. And in rugby, you want to be confident in the club and the fans as well. You want to know that you're fully supported, because you've got to be able to focus on the job that you're there to do. Not on tension or worry off the pitch. And if there is tension about something as personal as your sexuality, it's ultimately going to affect your game and your enjoyment of the game in some way or another, because you wouldn't have that sense of belonging.

It's safe to say there have probably been players that we will never know about, that have gone out there and played brilliantly whilst carrying all that tension and having the knowledge that they weren't accepted. And whilst it’s truly admirable that they've been able to do that, it breaks my heart that they had to carry that pressure; that they didn't have the sense of fulfilment or belonging, or the sense of pride about being themselves. Life's too short to be anything other than fulfilled and happy. So, I think there is a massive correlation between being doing your role well and being able to express yourself and be open about your sexuality.

6. What advice would you give to LGBTQ+ employees in any workplace to help them navigate their careers while being authentic?

It sounds like such an oversimplification to say, ‘know yourself, be yourself and allow your ability to shine.’ But it is so true. And I think remembering that your sexuality does not define how capable you are at your job is also important. I'm a rugby player and a firefighter who happens to be married to a woman. My sexuality isn't what defines me, it's my character. And the fact that I'm proud of who I am helps with that. The only advice that I can give is to be unapologetically you and to believe in your own ability.

7. For allies, how do they become better allies? How do they make other people feel like they can belong?

It's a hard one, but it doesn't need to be complicated. There are so many conflicting messages out there about how you should be, but ultimately, I think the bottom line is treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Get to know people and allow everywhere in the work environment to be a safe space and create those positive relationships. Don't make assumptions and be a good person; allow people to be the best versions of themselves. And that shouldn’t be because you’re working with people in the LGBTQ+ community – it’s because you’re working with human beings. That’s how to be a good ally, and it’s definitely not complicated.

1. How open and inclusive would you say male professional rugby was for LGBTQ+ individuals during your playing career?

I've been retired 13 years now, and in that time, we've seen a massive shift in sports when it comes to understanding LGBTQ+ issues.

Managers and agents, who are often from the older generation, may have different views about LGBTQ+ inclusivity. There is a cycle of change and understanding that the sport is going through, and we have seen a lot of support for that and an understanding that players should be judged on their talent. There’s still a lot of work to do, and education is important. We need knowledge and we need data if we're going to drive wider cultural change.

I believe rugby has always been very accepting. It takes all shapes and sizes to play, and it's all about respect – everyone should have the right to play sport. We see that on the pitch and in the crowd.

2. Certain core values have shaped your work and activism. Could you talk us through the values and tell us why they’re important to you?

My values come from my dad and my family. And sadly, my dad's not around anymore. He was murdered while protecting someone.

He was all about being nice to people, and that’s exactly how I approach everything; though that’s not to say that I don’t stand up for myself and tell it how it is. He taught me about having people’s backs and putting my heart into everything, and that’s definitely a sportsman’s perspective. I always think about how I guide my daughters. Does the advice I give them match how I behave myself?

3. Was the tragedy you went through part of your motivation for setting up the StandUp Foundation?

My dad’s death was in 2000, and I was an angry man at that point. I had no answers at 20 years old. It's not nice to go to court and have a murder trial while you're playing for your country, and it was it was a very difficult time.

But when you go through stuff like that, there's people around you who are willing to help. And there was a coach called Wayne Smith, who was the coach for Northampton Saints, where I played. We made two goals: to be the best player in the world in my division, and win a World Cup. Those are big things to say.

I changed my whole attitude, my whole approach to rugby. And I became the first one into training, last one out of training. And I was able to get on that plane to Australia in 2003 [for the Rugby World Cup], because I harnessed the anger and the pain I was feeling.

I pulled out of the next World Cup in 2007 because my twins were about to be born. And around that time I got a phone call from a guy called Laurent in Paris, and he had set up a fan page on Facebook for me – 37,000 people had joined it. I was saying, ‘Are you sure you’ve got the right Ben Cohen?’ And he said, ‘Yes, I am.’ He said I needed to know something, which is that all of the fans were men. I said, ‘Well, okay,’ and he told me that I was a gay icon.

Lots of stories were shared on the platform about members of the community suffering at the hands of other people, and the impact of that. So, I wanted to be an ally. I wanted to bridge the gap between the gay and straight communities and be receptive to the LGBTQ+ conversation – I felt it was really important.

So, in 2011 I set up the Foundation to support the LGBTQ+ cause and anti-bullying efforts generally. I was able to work with companies like Nike, Coca-Cola and Microsoft. It’s been a fantastic journey.
 

4. You’ve recently worked to support other charities that are focused on diversity. Can you share some of the moments where you felt your work made a memorable impact?

The Foundation was structured to provide support through partnerships, funding and media.

In the UK, I worked with the Home Office to eradicate homophobia and transphobia from the stand back in 2012. That initiative involved the Olympics, the football and rugby leagues, tennis, cricket… It became a real talking point at the time, which was important.

We’ve also supported the Red Balloon Centre, which provides support to children that have been bullied and helps them regain their confidence, and the Milton Keynes Safety Centre. It’s fantastic to support organisations like this and use the power of sport to drive change. I find a lot of projects focus on a campaign and not the legacy that’s left. But legacies are crucial.

5. How can organisations work to create more inclusive environments?

It depends on the pillars of responsibility in your company. If your values don’t align, then you’re never going to create acceptance within a workplace. Allyship for a company should mean understanding your values and understanding the importance of creating a place where everybody can be their whole selves. People need a clear understanding of your message and how you operate.

Can employees put their heads above the parapet? Can they talk? It’s no different from having values as a person. If you’re a nice person, you’re going to want to share love, support and friendship.

For individuals, I believe in using platforms to champion inclusivity – thinking about the information you can share, and the opportunities that you can provide.

Individuals can do a lot within their companies with those ingredients. If you do good work, enjoy yourself at work, you can create a movement inside your company.