MA: And to as developing countries lobby developed countries for the financial and other technical support in order to ensure that we can transition in that just manner very interesting.
Listening to the Minister of Minerals and Energy at the Joburg Indaba today, saying that he won't allow the South African economy to be collapsed by various agendas around this transition away from coal.
Now read into that what you will. Campbell, how is this goal being treated in the build-up to COP26 and what are your expectations for COP?
CP: Well, I think it's important to look at COP in the current context, it comes hot on the heels of the IPCC's report, which issued a stern warning to us all.
And there was a follow-up report, just I think two weeks ago from the United Nations that said that greenhouse gases would be up 16% by 2030, not half, which is what is required under the terms of Paris.
So and I also think that the host country is very keen to make a deal, Boris Johnson is undoubtedly under pressure, because at the moment, he's right in the middle of what's looking to be a full-blown energy crisis in the UK.
It's something that we're seeing in Europe as well there's not be enough gas, wind hasn't blown, and hydro is in short supply and it's forced many countries to go back and consider coal as an energy source, which is the very thing COP seeks to eliminate.
So very, very interesting times, an interesting backdrop for the Conference of the Parties.
I also think that there's growing criticism that the Paris Accord has been a total flop, I think there's a huge amount of frustration that the very things that COP sets out to achieve aren't being achieved at all.
And it's interesting because we did some work on this. So we went back and looked at the initial at the 26 years spanning COP1 which is in 1995 and over that time to the current point in time, greenhouse gas emissions are up 15%.
The global temperature anomalies have risen by half a degree versus long-run averages, which doesn't sound like much, but it's scientifically relevant.
Global forest coverage is down a percent doesn't sound like much either but that's five and a half million square kilometres it's a big chunk of land.
Global biodiversity down 40% over that time, and then the number of coral bleaching events, for example, which is a thing, it's measured by an initiative called 100 reefs initiative that's been rising at an average rate of 3% per annum.
So going into COP here the message is that people are fine, because let's face it, life on earth is vastly better than it's been at any time in history, but the planet is most definitely not.
So I think the number one objective with COP is to restore credibility and for me, there are a number of ways that it can do that. I think if they can just deal with a couple of issues it's not too late and as John Kerry said earlier this year, this is our last best chance.
MA: Andrew, how do we do that?
AG: So if I may respond to that thanks, Michael.
So the value of being a lawyer is the ability to hold two contrary thoughts in your head simultaneously so cognitive dissonance. So I absolutely agree that we are not where we need to be.
But I offer this thought, there is no other game in town, we only have the international climate change negotiations, which are at the moment framed under the Paris Agreement, which is a subsidiary convention to the Framework Convention on Climate Change.
We don't have another option for dealing at a global level with the climate response. So we've got to go with what has been set out under Paris.
What has been set out under Paris is a series of good ideas and very clear pathways. So it's not Paris or the negotiations or the legal instruments that are at fault, it's the parties to those instruments, who have over time faltered and had greater or lesser ambition as we moved on.
And by the way, net zero is a really interesting example of this because there's a lot of criticism, as I said, in various circles at the international and at the local level of what net zero seems to be driving as a response by public and private sector. Ideology is sometimes a luxury.
So simply to criticize net zero from that perspective often fails to take account of the fact that Campbell, as you've said, you are seeing changes in the way organizations are doing business.
So for example, the rapid rise of work being done on electric vehicles is a single example of a shift away from business as usual. Is it soon enough? No. Is it enough? Absolutely not. But it's the only thing we've got?