MA: So very important that the issues around the DBSA getting access to the Green Climate Fund are resolved. Zaheer what are South Africa's finance needs and what are we currently doing as a country to ensure that we enhance our access to climate finance?
ZF: Well, Michael, I mean, just speaking on the Eskom energy transition program- it's estimated that they would need for the period of the next 10 years, something in the range of around $27 billion just to finance that.
Currently, when we did our assessment of the financial or international support coming into South Africa, it's running at around $2 billion a year.
And our NDC articulates that by 2030, we need to be at a point at around $8 billion.
That is just the international support. Currently, if we look at our investments, the investments are running on the basis of let's say, co-financing or leveraging at the ratios of around four to one.
So with the 8 billion, if you're looking at a four ratio, that's another what 32, so you're looking at an investment on an annual basis of anything over $40 billion injection into the transition in South Africa.
But Michael, let me give you a scoop.
I sit on many of the fund’s boards. I was in a board meeting on the Climate Investment Funds which is a fund situated in the World Bank financing clean technology, etc.
One of the new programs that we agreed to and in which the G7 provided some injection of capital into is the Accelerating Coal Transition program.
The board took a decision in which four countries have been selected to submit investment plans to be able to access up to 500 million dollars.
14 countries submitted expressions of interest and I'm glad to say South Africa ranked number one amongst them. So South Africa, India, Indonesia, and the Philippines have been selected to submit an investment plan.
So we'll be working closely with Mandy at Eskom to submit an investment plan so there's already an injection of $500 million coming into the Just Energy transition program of Eskom.
One should also note that that is blended finance so linked to that 500 would be blended support coming from multilateral development banks.
In our case, we'll be talking to the World Bank and the African Development Bank around that.
The important thing of that is that allows us then to on the strength of that, to start engaging with people like Investec and other private financiers to look at how we then blend more finance into that program.
So that's one positive development.
The other one is the recent announcement by PIMCO of providing 200 million to the DBSA.
It's a kind of a debt servicing facility to free up debt servicing financing at DBSA to be engaged into renewables.
That's an interesting development because that looks at creating some lessons for the new emerging areas of debt swaps and debt for climate swaps.
So there's a lot of things happening.
My message to John and the others... you guys in the envoys better get your act together because we are moving ahead, way faster than what you guys can do.
And maybe we'll be talking with the guys at Investec to see how we can scale up this engagement. Thanks very much, Michael.
MA: Zaheer thank you.
Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for just as we're really getting stuck into the meat of it.
It's going to be a very interesting COP26, the finance COP.
That was Zaheer Fakir, Chief Policy Advisor International Relations and Governance in the Department of Environmental Affairs and lead coordinator for finance for the African group of negotiators on climate change with that scoop that there is another seven and a half billion Rand basically flowing into that Eskom JET transaction.
John Wade-Smith, Head of Climate Change and Energy at the British High Commission- thank you very much for joining us.
Along with Martin Meyer, Head of Power and Infrastructure Finance at Investec.
You've been watching the Climate Conversations on Business Watch with me Michael Avery, as always brought to you by Investec.